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Justy Ueki  
Rank: Sergeant

Subject: Robotech RPG license returns to Palladium 
Started on: September 6, 2007 - 8:04:17 PM
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Tommy  
Rank: Captain

Subject: Discussion tonight on Space Station Liberty 
Posted on: March 7, 2008 - 4:56:45 PM
Edited on: March 7, 2008 - 5:01:34 PM

I'll be discussing the release of Palladium's new Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles RPG on Chris Meadows' show tonight on March 7th at 7pm Pacific / 10pm Eastern:

http://terrania.us/liberty/

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Vile Dazzler  
Rank: Lieutenant

Subject: No Discover or paypal? 
Posted on: March 9, 2008 - 1:00:50 PM

I was going to pre-order but...

Robotech... it gets in your blood.

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Captaintenneal  
Rank: Private

Subject: Shadow Chronicles Palladium 
Posted on: March 10, 2008 - 6:59:40 AM

What I really want to know about the new RPG book is it a stand alone. ( I know they said they have revised the rules system via Rifts) or is it ment to be used in conjunction with the older Palladium books? I'm sure it could be used WITH them but what I mean is dose it contain all the base types of Veritech's and destroids Zentradi info etc... or just stuff covered in the Shadow Chronicles.

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Tommy  
Rank: Captain

Subject: Either way - it's compatible with other Palladium RPGs 
Posted on: March 10, 2008 - 1:24:41 PM

You can play the Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles RPG on its own or in conjunction with other Palladium RPGs depending on your preferences. The mecha set is broader than what is seen in the movie, but Palladium had to cap the book at 336 pages. So there's plenty more to come in follow-up source books.

BTW, Kevin Siembieda has confirmed that the Shadow Chronicles RPG has been heavily pre-ordered -- much higher than their other books with weeks to go before it ships.

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JexKerome  
Rank: Master Sergeant

Subject: Heh 
Posted on: March 11, 2008 - 12:33:01 AM

Considering the original RPG is long gone, and that the rules have changed somewhat since then, it was obvious R:TSC would be standalone. And wow, 300+ pages and they still left stuff out, and they are honoring the original price. Can't wait for my books to arrive!

"Bioroid shmioroid, pass the ammunition"

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Jeebers  
Rank: Sergeant

Subject: Norwood 
Posted on: March 11, 2008 - 4:17:45 PM



"But ROMANCEAND SOCIAL interaction IS ROLE PLAYING."

Yup, and Palladium doesn't reward or support this in any way. That's my point.

"In my games there is alot of romance social interactions and we keep the combat to a minimum, when it is nessacary to advance the game in proper context and to create proper drama and conflict."

Bravo for you and your friends. However, my argument is that Palladium, the rpg engine itself, is an active impediment to Robotech style roleplaying. It frustrated me so much that I created my own game using the Palladium original info, and translating it into D20 Future mecha etc. Been writing it for over a year now.

"But D20 isn't the end all of RPG's and when ppl claime it is it really gets under my skin, usually to the point where I either want to beat the person down or simply Never want to try newer D20 based systems."

Sounds like a personal problem, you should probably get yourself looked at. ;)
I never claimed that D20 was the best gaming system out there, not once. I did state that it seemed like the most accessible for new gamers, and that it's a far superior system compared to Palladium for the purposes of the romance/combat 50/50 balance that Robotech seems to require.

"Do you understand what I mean?"
Yes, but I think you've misunderstood what I've been saying all along.

Karridan, I agree with you, but I think your idea might be difficult to run because of the hodge-podge of rpg rules will create confusion especially for new or inexperienced gamers. Not everybody has decades of experience in rpg's, you know. Even worse, you'd have to invest in lots of game systems to figure out how things work. Unless you've assembled and written down a compilation already, most of the players would be lost without a copy. With that kind of effort you seem to be willing to give, I think it's better to use one adaptable system to suit most purposes and cobble together house rules to solve the difficult questions, then give a copy of your work to your players via email or paper copy. That way your players can buy the main rule book (in my case D20 Modern) and know how to function and what's expected of each player. Interested in giving me a critique of my adaptation? If so, send an email request with Robotech in the subject box to funk0039@yahoo.com (that's my personal address).

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Vile Dazzler  
Rank: Lieutenant

Subject: Payment Tommy? 
Posted on: March 12, 2008 - 6:25:22 AM

Any chance you can update for discover or paypal?

Robotech... it gets in your blood.

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Jeebers  
Rank: Sergeant

Subject: "Keep practicing!" -Michaelangelo, the original TMNT movie 
Posted on: March 12, 2008 - 1:24:05 PM



(buffing fingernails) Did you get the reference? (making a joke and not trying to offend here, but I AM also making a valid point)

ShadowLogan, this is going to continue until A) you stop posting, B) you concede my point and buy a d20 Modern book so you have some ammo, or C) I continue running intellectual rings around you because you refuse to examine your beloved Palladium and compare it to a “new” system. Yes, I can back up what I’ve just implied, because I never bluff, or blink for that matter. Here we go again!

“Its for a vareity of reasons, not the least of which is issues relating to legibility after level up. Some people do write darker/harder and erasing it can cause legibility issues after a level or two. Its also easier to read than pencil.”

Whoops, missed the point again. Each skill in Palladium must be penciled in, and at every level up you must get a tiny eraser to correct your new percentages, with enough space left over to leave the increment present so you don’t have to look it up again. Because there are a zillion skills in PB, you have to do this. In every other game I’ve played, there’s a set number of skills in the game, and each skill is generalized so it functions for just about everything in its purview. So, you don’t have to pencil in specific skill names and therefore you don’t accidentally erase when you level up. Remember, you’ve ALREADY admitted there are legibility problems after 2 level ups. So, why do you play a system which requires you to have a printer, a specific program for the character sheet, and a computer as opposed to D20 or any other RPG system?

“I have created characters from scratch in SW D20. That is one of the reasons I do not like the system because I have used it.”

Nope, wrong again. Star Wars has very different mechanics than D20 Modern, although they are superficially similar. You’d know that if you’d done as I asked earlier in this very thread. I can prove it; see below.

“Yes it does, it is a game using the D20 system. One D20 System Game uses the same mechanics as any other D20 system game. Much like Palladium has different settings (Rifts, Palladium Fantasy, Nightbane, Hero's Unlimited, etc), but they all use the same rule set. So experience in one D20 game is applicable to the D20 system as a whole.”

Bzzzt! Wrong again. Palladium’s mechanics are identical no matter what game you play. Whilst D20 games LOOK similar, they play very differently. Want an example?

Create a D20 Modern PC. Note some interesting differences compared to D&D. First, the AC is a LOT higher because your class gives you constant bonuses, and the weapons not only have HUGE range, they do much more damage. Oh crap, and if you want to hit somebody your BAB is a lot lower too! Your hit die is at least one size smaller than D&D, and your Fortitude is usually miniscule compared to your Reflex save. Now throw in the much more stringent massive damage rules: If you take damage equal to your Constitution, you must make a Fortitude DC 15 or have –1hp which of course comes with unconsciousness and losing 1hp per round until –10hp=death. Oh, don’t forget that magical or even custom body armor doesn’t exist, and what you do get for your armor bonus is a lot less than D&D. Hey, did you know that you can only get 1d4 hp back from First Aid ONCE a day (Treat Injury DC15, but you need a First Aid kit which is a one use item)? Surgery is even less pleasant. Compare that to D&D’s 1d8+1 to +5 Cure Light Wounds and the even more powerful and higher level Cure spells and other Lay On Hands etc effects that everybody and their uncle seems to have in D&D.

So tell me, what’s the cumulative effect of these rules, eh? Getting shot will hurt a lot, didja notice?

“The only difference between a Comm Engineer type OCC and other OCCs usually comes down to Skill bonuses in a given category, and sometimes availablity of skills.”

Whoops, nope! Check out Field Scientist and Military Specialist; they are almost identical. Even worse, there are some skill categories that almost nobody has access to, like the Military/Espionage set.

“The Comm. Engineer though can spend Skills to get combat ability, not all OCCs are intended for combat.”

Wrong again, but this time from a military perspective. ;) Say it with me, civvie: ALL MILITARY SOLDIERS ARE TRAINED AS INFANTRY AND THUS THEY FIGHT WELL, ONLY THE SPECIALITY DIFFERS FROM TROOPER TO TROOPER. By the by, I’ve gone through Basic and Advanced military training in real life, so I can personally verify this fact. All real life military teams have a communications guy so they can figure out what the heck is going on, and that guy is combat trained so he can shoot back if he has to. Communications Engineer OCC has terrible combat skills available, kids.

What does a certain level of proficiency in a skill mean, what kind of jobs can I do?


“This is more broadbased concerning a few of your points, but it seems like you've never actually read the game mechanics parts and the descriptions of the attributes, skills, and OCC descriptions.”

Nope, pay more attention! The skills have a short blurb each with NO examples or suggested difficulties for various instances. This means that when we try to do something odd with that skill, there’s no framework for guessing how hard that action is. Even worse, if I get 76% total on my Detect Ambushes skill, what can I do that someone with a 30% couldn’t do? Not written by Palladium, yet again. You know, I’d rather have too many rules so I can choose to ignore them if I don’t feel it’s necessary, rather than nothing at all if I get in a jam as GM. Guess which one Palladium likes to do in every damn setting? They seem so lazy at times, I dunno.


“ There aren't any skills for the same generic thing, there are skills for similiar but different specific topics. There are a few skills that overlap in catagories and are usually listed again, but that's all I can think of.”

Nope, wrong again. Let’s look in the RT main book shall we? There are 16 (!)different Pilot skills, and 2 different cooking skills, and 3 different Electronics skills, and 7 different Mechanical repair skills…. (suppressing chuckle) Now, in D20 Modern we have the Repair, Craft (Mechanical, Electrical, and sometimes Structural) skills. To fix any car, all I have to do is roll my Repair skill. To make a car from scratch, I’ll need Craft(Electrical and Mechanical). This means creating a car on your own is TWICE as difficult as just repairing it. Sounds about right, eh?


“ Professional Skills are of higher percentages than amateur skills, not lower, and they represet better quality.”

Okay, so if I have a 50% amateur cooking skill because of my higher level, am I better than the guy who has 35% professional cooking skill? I DON’T KNOW, DO I? Were you reading the same books as I was, or am I hallucinating/going senile?

“So now I need at least 3 books to play a game (and D20 books generally are more expensive than PB's)? That is what I like about PB, they don't make you go out and buy several books just to play the basic game.”

Sigh, ever read KODT? Most players will, accidentally or intentionally, memorize the beastie stats so they know what they’re up against in a firefight if given a chance. So having the “monster” stats in the main book isn’t bright, now is it? Okay, why have the antagonists separate from the GM stuff? Too many different “GM speed bumps” to include and still have a reasonably sized book. Look at the size of the MM and the DMG, pretty huge eh? Oh, and having the DMG separate from the PHB just makes sense. If they’re together, the GM doesn’t have any wiggle room to customize a game because the players will expect the DM to have X canned response when they confront a baddie, just for one example. Oh, wouldn’t it be nice if the magic items remained a bit of a mystery to the players so they can get excited when they see an enchanted backpack? (this last line of motivation doesn’t hold for Robotech, but I digress.)

“As far as proper military behavior: A. it's just a fictional game/setting, B. one could do the research if they felt it was needed.”

Gack! Of course it’s just a game, but wouldn’t it be nice if a military game FELT military in some way, ANY way purty please? Second, have you ever tried to get ahold of a military training manual? They give you a LONG look to see if you aren’t a security risk, so researching isn’t an option. John H already tried it. Ooh ooh, wouldn’t it be a great idea if the game writers did the major legwork for you so that you can concentrate on the story and your players?!

“So if your party gets split up or a character(s) is imbolized they should get XP, even though they didn't (or couldn't) participate to resolve an encounter or issue? Even on teams, there are people who do more/less for the group which D20 doesn't reflect.”

Nope! That issue already’s addressed. If you don’t participate in the challenge in any way, you don’t get xp. Did you ever read the books? I’ve pert near memorized Robotech and D&D, and I’m on my way with D20 Modern. As for overall team participation, if you noticeably do more to complete the goal, the DM is encouraged to give the player BONUS xp for the effort. The others will notice that one guy is advancing faster, so they’ll get jealous and therefore work harder in a fight.

“Correcting myself, the RPG explains it as focusing your time and energies on mastering your new skills for the reason the old ones do not advance. Most OCCs are pretty flexible once you factor in the skills the player can select, so most of the multi-Classes issues you raise do not even exist.”

Uhm, the point is that the skills don’t stack with themselves in another class, so effectively I have 2 different Climb ratings, one of which is much higher than the other. Gee, which one should I pick? If going with my old class benefits me more and I don’t LIKE my old class, wouldn’t it be easier in Palladium just to make a NEW character? Sigh, the military doesn’t do this sort of thing.

If you were trained in hopscotch, and you picked up some random parasailing experience in the course of your duties, you’ll be assigned to missions where both will be needed (you become the team expert). Say it with me one more time: YOU CAN’T MULTICLASS IN RESPONSE TO A NEW SITUATION IN PALLADIUM, SO YOUR PC CAN’T GROW TO MEET NEW CHALLENGES NOT ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE ORIGINAL OCC! Bad idea.

“While it would be nice to have a more fleshed out world, do we really want an endless supply of Robotech RPG books like there is for RIFTS? While I agree that there could be more detail to make things easier/better for a GM, I think what you are asking for is a little much, especially from a company who is more interested in their own franchises than Robotech.”

Uh no, I never once suggested this. Rifts is out of control in my opinion. I wanted a book for each continent/theater, divided up between each of the Robotech generations. And moreover if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right. Have some pride in your craftsmanship and finish the damn game so it’s playable, eh Palladium?

“I like having detail to draw from as a GM, and more than once have I derived an adventure idea simply from some arcane detail buried in some region's description; but I also don't want to get so bogged down in pre-determined detail that I cannot forge forward with my own campaign because I didn't remember/see some contradictory detail in a supplement I was forced to buy to maintain system relevance. “

Whoops, wrong again. ALL of the game rules are in the core books, and anything else is very specific to a very specific situation so you won’t be using it much, if at all. So, it’s much easier to bring out a new edition (from a publishing perspective)that’s compatible with the old one assuming you need to fix the rules, because the consumer only has to replace the 3 core books and you’re good to go. Moreover, I’d rather be able to ignore a game rule that I don’t need than not have anything on the subject at all. It’s a LOT easier.

To wit: John and I noticed that you take a –4 to hit and receive an attack of opportunity if you use any longarm against a target in the next square over. This seemed stupid, so we eliminated the –4 altogether. Shotguns are specifically suited and made for that kind of wetwork, and handguns aren’t useful at any range other than point blank, so you now only get a attack of opportunity if you are firing any kind of rifle at an adjacent square. Rifles take time to aim, but you’re not going to miss at this sort of range.

“As to the Social aspect, one very good thing to keep in mind for what you (Jeebers) are asking about is that how many rolls will it take to make it fun for you? Do you really want a "dating" skill that you have to roll once or more a date to find out how it went? How many OCCs should have the Dating Skill? How many people IRL do you think possess this skill? What do you really want to accomplish with it? I can understand needing some social skills, but it isn't the focus of Robotech. Sure there's romance, but Robotech isn't Shoujou...
What is the point if all that is done at the table is roll the dice to resolve everything; then it doesn't matter if its combat or social, its just dice rolls.”

Them’s fightin’ words, boyo! ;) You have ONE skill to cover sex, and neato things like a flexible Bluff skill to handle getting your “victim” into bed or just lying to the castle guard so you can get past the gate. And Robotech is pretty mushy by nature, most of it’s talking heads, story and “smooching” with less and less onscreen combat as the series goes on. Didn’t you watch the anime and think about what you’re seeing? Palladium has a whopping 16 different Pilot specific skills, whilst D20 Modern has 2, Drive and Pilot. Sounds like PB is the one with the high number of rolls required, doesn’t it? Have you actually read and thought about the implications of the Palladium system as presented in the Robotech game book, or am I writing to myself here?

“All of them except Lancer's Rockers (do have it on floppy disk somewhere because PB was giving it away for free on their website ages ago) and the First Edition of "Return of the Masters" (have 2nd ed.)”So do I, but I have all the books in their original editions. Have you read them closely and thought about it?“Plus an assortment of Rifts Books. Have Palladium Fantasy, and can borrow a few othe PB titles.”“No. I do not own the (d20 Modern) books nor do I have an inclination to get them.”Uhh, then exactly HOW are you qualified to participate in this discussion?“I have seen the character sheets though, and they use the same layout that the SW 2nd edition does. Sure the Classes, Skills, and Feats are different but that would be expected from the different settings.”(suppressing laughter) Wrong again. I wrote about the SPECIFIC differences earlier in this very post. See above. Could you please begin backing up your arguments instead of just making blanket statements? Pay closer attention to the classes etc next time, and think about their effect in gameplay versus what you’re used to in your oft quoted Star Wars and D&D experience.


“I preferr a moderate level between the two extremes of "must role-play-every-single-transaction" and using something as medieval as "dice" is an utter failure; to the "must-roll-dice-to-burp-correctly" nonsense. As the Jeebers post I was responding to appears to go a little further into the latter category than I am advocating for, I only appear to be going the other direction (its a relativity thing ). “

Like I wrote in this very post already, you need to back up your arguments when you present them with specific facts, not make blanket statements and just expect us to agree. Did you ever go to college and take a “Logic” arguments class? How about scholarly writing?

Second, as I wrote before, it’s better to have rules we can ignore than get into a situation in which the GM doesn’t have anything to fall back on.

“As I said before, different groups like different levels of interference in the social dynamics from the game system they are using. Clearly, Palladium's system is geared more to "You role-play the social; and use the rules for when the diplomacy fails" side of things. They have light interference into the social area; but heavy in the combat.”

Whoops! Missed the logical implications again! Most players aren’t all that socially gifted, kids. That’s why they got into a RPG in the first place, to learn how in a no fault environment like a fictional game. Worse, if you check out the xp chart (yet again I have to mention this!) you’ll find it doesn’t support combat but it does support story goals. Not much is in there for having great personal social skills, didja see? The only thing Palladium does well is combat, but you spend most of the game doing it with that idiotic zillion actions per round thingy, and the damn game doesn’t reward players for the experience with xp. (the actions per round is confusing when you have 9 players and it’s an hour before my noncombat scientist type which I built in response to seeing the xp chart gets another action-don’t get me started on that one!)

“While its possible to "fix" Palladium to add more social interference, it is clearly not where the designers intended to go. So, you can create a home-brew system; or you can simply use a system that is more geared towards your style of play. If the characters spend more game time outside of uniform than in a cockpit; then don't use Palladium's system, try something designed for role-playing considerations rather than just technical stats. BESM comes to mind, although I am sure there are even more socialized games out there than even this.”

Uh, wouldn’t it be nice if we didn’t have to own lots of different systems like many hardcore gamers to solve a simple problem? Hey, Palladium could just revise the damn system once in a while and actually include social skills as a crutch for the socially inept player who is playing the god-on-a-stick studmuffin character with a high MA and Appearance!

“As for me, when I ran palladium games, the lack of social skills & mechanics was never a deterrent in any of the groups I played with, and so has never been a complaint of mine about the system.”

You obviously play with really dateable social players who know how to interact, unlike me who games with ordinary 19-40 year olds. Lucky dog, you. Most of my players couldn’t get a date if the world was ending and they were wearing tuxedoes or evening gowns. I love ‘em dearly, but it’s the truth.

“As to the D20 variants issue; yes the overall design of each D20 system is largely transparent and similar; however as has been pointed out; there are significant differences once you get beyond them.”

Kick butt, somebody read the book! Forgive me for being sarcastic, I’ve endured this one guy for a long time in this particular thread. Better yet, you thought about what the logical implications are from the changed classes, weapons, armor, and hp recovery. You have my sincere thanks.

“As to the XP debate; remember, all these games rely on the GM's to use their subjective judgment to award XP. A D&D DM is not required to give XP to the party members sitting at the pub smokin' while the other two are exploring the enemy encampment. In fact, I believe the rule states that a particular character has to be involved in the specific encounter to get XP, not just in the game session. Likewise, even though the XP chart only appears to address combat oriented XP awards, that is not the limit of if; and XP should be awarded for non-combat/traps.”

Wow, this guy understands the game system and how to present his arguments in a logical well-constructed format! Hey, this xp system could logically be extended to social interaction too, since all you need is to get the CR of the NPC and give that xp to the player upon completion of his or her goal. Neat, huh?


“The point is, despite the overall similarities, there are several "minor" tweaks which balance the respective incarnations out in very different ways.”


“The same appears in Palladium's various lines. The guts of both systems remain though, if you can play in one setting/genre it sets one up for other genres using the same system with only minjor considerations.”

Let me add a bit by stating that D20 isn’t like this. Each incarnation uses the same math and rough format, but the effects are radically different. Palladium uses the same system, math, format, effects in all their games, so there’s not much difference in the “feel” of each separate RPG. It’s therefore easy to learn and become comfortable with, but you sacrifice flexibility. The other guy missed this point and assumed that D20 was identical in every incarnation just like Palladium is. He didn’t do his homework, as I like to say. It’s refreshing to respond to a writer that takes the time to research the material being discussed before joining in. Thank you for speaking up!

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sleepy042  
Rank: Lieutenant

Subject: cripes..... 
Posted on: March 12, 2008 - 6:40:12 PM

thats too much reading...

Your 20004 Robotech Fantasy Football Champion!!!!
Placed 2nd in the 2005 & 2008 Robotech Fantasy Football League!!!!
Motto: Shoot first and ask questions never.........

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BRumph  
Rank: Sergeant

Subject: Umm.. 
Posted on: March 12, 2008 - 8:31:02 PM
Edited on: March 12, 2008 - 8:32:56 PM


Like I wrote in this very post already, you need to back up your arguments when you present them with specific facts, not make blanket statements and just expect us to agree.
So... I'm supposed to respond to your 'request' while your are writing it, and hasn't been published for veiw?

Clearly you like lots of rules for social interactions; thats fine. In "fact", if you were to back off your fire button a little, you would see that I agree with you that Palladium is wanting in this particular regard, and that D20 does a somewhat better job in this regard.

Where we part paths, again, is that you prefer a higher level of interference than I would. Surely, someone who recognizes that there are different types of groups out there can recognize a difference of OPINION when they see one; No?

No, I have not played with any groups of remarkable (or otherwise "above average") social grace; and said observation comes from comparisons of several groups, including those that I did not directly participate in at conventions. Sure, we were a bit more civil than you seem to expect, with only two exceptions, but we weren't all (or even mostly) exceptionally gifted in the social ability department.

Perhaps you should re-evaluate your assessment of the arguments you are responding to; particularly in regards to what is clearly an opinion and what is a "blanket" assertion of "fact".

The fact of the matter is, we do not agree on the necessary level of interference a given RPG should have on social interations. The fact of the matter is, as you have now given more evidence to support, that you preferr more rules in this subject than I do. The fact of the matter is, we agree that Palladium is lacking in rules on this point. The fact, as revealed in your post, is that we both agree that the Palladium system's combat system is itself flawed due, in particular although not exclusively, to its handling of multiple action within a round.

Forget benchmarked social abilities or aptitudes for your gaming group. Respect would be more useful and make even the lamest attempts at role-playing a bit more enjoyable for everyone involved.

Like I was saying before, we both agree that the Palladium system is flawed; where we seem to part paths again is that I am willing to find a different system (or create one) that addresses my concerns, than continue using, unmodified, the system that I have problems with.

Heck, I even agree that the comparison between the different incarnations of D20 and Palladium is hopelessly flawed. As pointed out multiple times now, there are very real, core, differences between D20 Modern and D&D; Palladium does not vary core rules, just accidents of core rules, making it simutaneously fundamentally unchanged from each incarnation to the next, while having annoying inconsistancies and incompatabilities that are drawn out when you really do try and cross-pollinate Palladium worlds & rules sets.

I enjoyed Palladium when Robotech was an active product line; but Rifts burnt me out, and I have found better systems that meet my expectations and desires than the Palladium system does. I don't need to "bash" them or mean to complain; they just aren't my first choice of RPG system.


Pilot of VF/B-9-357, Third Squadron, 12th Division, Jupiter Base.

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James Norwood  
Rank: Corporal

Subject: re: getting shot in RPG's 
Posted on: March 13, 2008 - 2:24:40 PM
Edited on: March 13, 2008 - 2:31:40 PM


Create a D20 Modern PC. Note some interesting differences compared to D&D. First, the AC is a LOT higher because your class gives you constant bonuses, and the weapons not only have HUGE range, they do much more damage. Oh crap, and if you want to hit somebody your BAB is a lot lower too! Your hit die is at least one size smaller than D&D, and your Fortitude is usually miniscule compared to your Reflex save. Now throw in the much more stringent massive damage rules: If you take damage equal to your Constitution, you must make a Fortitude DC 15 or have –1hp which of course comes with unconsciousness and losing 1hp per round until –10hp=death. Oh, don’t forget that magical or even custom body armor doesn’t exist, and what you do get for your armor bonus is a lot less than D&D. Hey, did you know that you can only get 1d4 hp back from First Aid ONCE a day (Treat Injury DC15, but you need a First Aid kit which is a one use item)? Surgery is even less pleasant. Compare that to D&D’s 1d8+1 to +5 Cure Light Wounds and the even more powerful and higher level Cure spells and other Lay On Hands etc effects that everybody and their uncle seems to have in D&D.

So tell me, what’s the cumulative effect of these rules, eh? Getting shot will hurt a lot, didja notice?
Sounds like a ton of math for something simple as getting shot.

FNFF Combat rules were simple...they were more or less based on real evidence of ballistic wound damage...well as close as you can get in an RPG context...to sum it up simply...Most times you get shot you will die. ok lets take an average guy... Body of 5 now since he is just joe blow average...a body of five gives you mod Body Type Modifiers to reduce damage. and since each wound state is always a fixed 4 boxes it makes things simple. now lets say joe gets shot with a 1911 .45 cal pistol that does 4d6-1 (poor quality) damage since the average roll on a D6 is 3 that comes out to 11 damage (4x3=12-1=11) now that brings poor joe to one box with in mortal 0 Now poor joe is in critical wound damage, and has to roll a stun save - 8 to remain consious (5+3=8) so poor joe would have to roll a 1 or a 2 to stay awake. now failing to do so means poor joe will drop one wond state per minute...due to blood loss because he's all alone. and more than likely he will die in about 2 minutes.

So what are you Options in Cyberpunk 2020? wear body armor and pray you don't get shot.

Remember in the real world people have died for a .22 shot in the foot. It's system shock and CP2020 makes very good use of it.

Brumph I agree. that is why I change and adapt the rules to my groups needs. In the first PFRPG there was a stamenet in there if you Don't like the rule... throw it out or change it. And personally I find "rules lawyers" to be annoying and bothersome.

"Bandits at 12 O'clock" "Let's Smoke 'em" " Good Ash, Bad Ash, Doesn't Matter, I'm the one with the Gun."

Member

Response 

James Norwood  
Rank: Corporal

Subject: PB Military characters 
Posted on: March 13, 2008 - 2:42:36 PM


Uhm, the point is that the skills don’t stack with themselves in another class, so effectively I have 2 different Climb ratings, one of which is much higher than the other. Gee, which one should I pick? If going with my old class benefits me more and I don’t LIKE my old class, wouldn’t it be easier in Palladium just to make a NEW character? Sigh, the military doesn’t do this sort of thing.

If you were trained in hopscotch, and you picked up some random parasailing experience in the course of your duties, you’ll be assigned to missions where both will be needed (you become the team expert). Say it with me one more time: YOU CAN’T MULTICLASS IN RESPONSE TO A NEW SITUATION IN PALLADIUM, SO YOUR PC CAN’T GROW TO MEET NEW CHALLENGES NOT ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE ORIGINAL OCC! Bad idea.

“While it would be nice to have a more fleshed out world, do we really want an endless supply of Robotech RPG books like there is for RIFTS? While I agree that there could be more detail to make things easier/better for a GM, I think what you are asking for is a little much, especially from a company who is more interested in their own franchises than Robotech.”

Uh no, I never once suggested this. Rifts is out of control in my opinion. I wanted a book for each continent/theater, divided up between each of the Robotech generations. And moreover if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right. Have some pride in your craftsmanship and finish the damn game so it’s playable, eh Palladium?


Look To be honest If you really want to look at very close to real Military characters from PB take a good look at Ninja's and Superspies. It has very good character construction espicially for military characters.

"Bandits at 12 O'clock" "Let's Smoke 'em" " Good Ash, Bad Ash, Doesn't Matter, I'm the one with the Gun."

Member

Response 

BRumph  
Rank: Sergeant

Subject: Ooooo...FNFF 
Posted on: March 13, 2008 - 3:00:04 PM

Wow, someone who knows about Friday Night Fire-Fight ;)

Yes, I loved Cyberpunk (R-Talsorian), and once they came out with the Heavy Metal supplement, I had ported in various Powered Armour units (I had free-formed the motoslaves from BBC and the Garand/Gallant from MZ23 prior to the release of 2020), and it is an acceptable system for Robotech.

However

FNFF, as per the relevant themes in Cyberpunk, was intended to be lethal and more realistic. However, aside from being the only "American" cartoon with significant fatalities involved, overall the RT characters are a bit more cinematic than is intended for the FNFF rules set. If you recreated Episode 1 from RT in FNFF, it's highly doubtful the SDF-1 would have made it off Macross Island, let alone anyone, like Rick or Minmei, to have survived.

FNFF would lend itself to a very grim rendition of a Robotech campaign (and I think would be very interesting), but not so much for those who are also trying to recreate the "larger than life" cinematic qualities and feel of Robotech as well.

That is why I had suggested Mekton Z (another R Talsorian game) as a suitable alternative. While very similar to FNFF, its rules are balanced a bit more in favor of cinematic style action, without making characters tougher than tanks/mecha.

Anyway, there isn't much more math in D20 than in RTal if your using all the rules from both systems. they both start at "roll Die, add Attack/Stat". But both get more complicated when adding all the additional modifiers (range, feats, movement, weapon accuracies, ect). In the end, D20 (using the base rules) is different in that it substitutes the opposed defence roll for a baseline Defence modifier (called AC), eliminating an extra roll during the process. But comparing D20 damage to the target's Con is no more complicated or intensive than comparing it to a Stun/Shock roll; or tracking armor ablation rates and penetration. Sure, D20 uses a wider statistical spread (using 5% increments) than what you see in Interlock (using 10% spreads), it still amounts to the same basic fundamentals. Mechanically speaking, there isn't a big procedural difference between "Roll 1d20, add BAB, add Dex Mod" versus "Roll 1d10, add REF, add WA". Sure, what it means in the end is handled differently, but neither is significantly more complicated than the other for a player. If anything, FNFF ends up being slightly more "complex" due to how damage is resolved, mostly in how armor is handled. Granted, its isn't difficult, but it has been too much for some players I have played with (sadly).

And don't forget the cool, but somewhat complicated HtH system in FNFF / Cyberpunk 2020 which requires a bit more bookkeeping than D20...

Anyway, overall, I'm obviously of the "use whatever game system makes you happy for Robotech" opinion, and so thinks if someone is more willing to switch systems than fix the one presented to them, "more power to them". I've played enough different systems to know that a CP2020 version of RT will play and feel a lot different than a D20 version or even an I.C.E. Space Master version. The one that is superior is the one that makes it fun for your group!

Pilot of VF/B-9-357, Third Squadron, 12th Division, Jupiter Base.

Member

Response 

JexKerome  
Rank: Master Sergeant

Subject: Ugh 
Posted on: March 14, 2008 - 1:56:14 AM

These people are still arguing their opinion as if it were fact?

"Bioroid shmioroid, pass the ammunition"

Member

Response 

bdtv321693  
Rank: Private 1st Class

Subject: I got a headache 
Posted on: March 14, 2008 - 8:41:13 AM

that was to much reading. i'm exccited that a new book is coming out it has been many years and hopefully more books will come out

Member

Response 

James Norwood  
Rank: Corporal

Subject: RE FNFF 
Posted on: March 15, 2008 - 11:25:46 AM


Anyway, there isn't much more math in D20 than in RTal if your using all the rules from both systems. they both start at "roll Die, add Attack/Stat". But both get more complicated when adding all the additional modifiers (range, feats, movement, weapon accuracies, ect). In the end, D20 (using the base rules) is different in that it substitutes the opposed defence roll for a baseline Defence modifier (called AC), eliminating an extra roll during the process. But comparing D20 damage to the target's Con is no more complicated or intensive than comparing it to a Stun/Shock roll; or tracking armor ablation rates and penetration. Sure, D20 uses a wider statistical spread (using 5% increments) than what you see in Interlock (using 10% spreads), it still amounts to the same basic fundamentals. Mechanically speaking, there isn't a big procedural difference between "Roll 1d20, add BAB, add Dex Mod" versus "Roll 1d10, add REF, add WA". Sure, what it means in the end is handled differently, but neither is significantly more complicated than the other for a player. If anything, FNFF ends up being slightly more "complex" due to how damage is resolved, mostly in how armor is handled. Granted, its isn't difficult, but it has been too much for some players I have played with (sadly).


It sounds like D20 combat is more like that of Heavy Gear, with opposed skils test. BTW Brumph it's Maximum Metal not Heavy Metal. I Own All the books for Cyberpunk 2020 all the books for CP 2013, and Mekton (all versions Mekton, Mekton II, Mekton Zeta)

And quite a few of Heavy Gear. I'd say I probably own about 2,500-5,000 dollars in RPG books. Of all types. and systems. But I think what jeebers is complaining about is that fact that PB uses afast and dirty combat system and more of the fact that EXP in PB is more combat based (which I know that it looks like that. But seriously you need to think outside the box)

This is a toy I've been working on for Macross II

VTF-2SSU Fighter/ Tactical Grenade Box Protector System – 5S

Overview: The T.G.B.P.S.-5S is a multi-role specialist, designed to deliver a punishing amount of damage at various ranges. Its primary role is that of a starship boarder… i.e. boarding a rogue Zentran ship and fighting its crew in close quarters. It’s equipped with 2 double-barreled “buster” rifles, these weapons are a newly developed pulse-particle cannon, 4 shoulder mounted rapid-fire energy guns, 2 forearm mounted plasma cannons, 2 2F-SS gunpods stored in a flip out holster in each outer leg, 2 plasma swords in the forearm, And a large variety of missiles.

Development: The T.G.B.P.S.-5S was created during the Marduk invasion of Earth in 2089. It was supposed to fill in the role of a heavy assault unit, but its numbers were to few to have any real impact on the war. Plus because of the weight of the weapons & armor it was discovered that the standard VF-2SS couldn’t maneuver very well, nor could it move very well either, this project would have dead-ended right there if not for a Dr. Ian Stovavich. He proposed to the U.N. Spacy his modified VF-2SS upgrade. The upgrade included newer engines, heavier armor, new variable-fire pulse lasers, heavy-duty electro-magnetic “hydraulics”, a newer combat computer to handle more AAB’s and other various components. The proposal was accepted (the UN Spacy was very desperate for anything to help win the war) and within a couple of days 6 VF-2SS’ were overhauled into the new “Tactical Fighter”. The VTF-2SSU or Upgraders as they were also called. The down side of the upgrade was, it slightly increased the size of the fighters and increased their weight as well. These upgraded valkyries proved their worth in the war destroying nearly a thousand mecha and soldiers for each of the upgraded 2SS’. Unfortunately Dr. Stovavich never lived to see their success. He, along with many others were killed in the war, However his dream lives on in over 500 Variable Tactical Fighters and their T.G.B.P.S.-5S armor kits.

Post Marduk War History: The year is now 2101, and it’s been 12 years since the invasion of the Marduk in 2089. The UN Spacy has recently considering mothballing the entire 2SS line of Valkyries. Because the Metal Siren is after all it’s successor, and many of these Upgrades serve on deep space patrol ships and other colonial expedition fleets. After 32 years of service the 2SS is becoming obsolete as far as the UN Spacy is concerned, the day of the venerable 2SS series is on a VERY short list of days. As for the upgraded or “Plus” model, it is expected to continue on, in the UN Spacy arsenal for another 20 to 45 years, and many will eventually be scrapped, or stripped down and sent to museums around the various colonies, well at least the ones that survive intact. At least 5 have already seen the “Bone Yard” a storage and scrap facility out in the North American wastes. There are some rumors that at least 1 or 2 of these have ended up in the hands of private collectors.

The Future: The future for this fighter is so uncertain at this time, but since there are so many VTF’s out there they will remain in service for quite sometime. The UN Spacy Command has been considering upgrading the entire aging 2SS fleet to the 2SS-U to give this old workhorse fighter a new lease on life. After all the modifications and upgrades are cheaper than a Metal Siren. And who knows maybe at last earth can finally rest and give up the pursuit of war. Maybe the human race and their zentran, meltran, and marduk allies will finally live up to the dreams of the proto-cultures. The races of the first star faring people that created the zentran and the meltran race to hunt down the Inspection Army Forces that rebelled and eventually led to the crash of the SDF-1. Crashing on earth, and allowing the humans to branch out into the stars. To become a fledgling galactic power, to go out into deep space to settle on other worlds, and get human kind out there. The Variable Fighter’s design is so useful and flexible that it should be at the side of humanity forever more and maybe the VFT-2SSU will there in some form or another.

VTF-2SSU Variable Tactical Fighter Upgrade Valkyrie II+
Weight: 34 Tons
Dimensions: Battroid GERWALK Jet
Height 45 feet/13.7 meters 24 feet/7.3 meters 17 feet/5.1 meters
Width 19 feet/5.7 meters 28 feet/8.5 meters 50 feet/15.2 meters with wings at full extension
Length 15 feet/4.6 meters 30 feet/9.1 meters 52 feet/15.8 meters
Speed: Atmosphere* Space*
Fighter Mach 6.9 Mach 12
GERWALK Mach 3.75 Mach 6.6
Battroid Mach 1.93 Mach 2.75
Running Battroid 150mph
*(This model has an over-thruster mode capable of quadrupling mach speeds used mostly for breaking orbit, and for high-speed assault. This afterburner cannot be used with the TGBPS on. The armor kit must be jettisoned first)

Automated Attack Bits or other drone Fighters: 6
Type: Variable Tactical Fighter 2 Space Superiority Upgrade
Role: Anti-Warship/Assault
Hard points: 6, 3 per wing
Crew: 1
Manufacturer:
Stonewell Bellcom and Shinnakasu Heavy Industries







M.D.C. By Location
Location Quantity M.D.C.
Head mounted pulse lasers (2) 40 each
Head 150
Hands (2) 80 each
Arms (2) 200 each
Legs, thrusters & pulse lasers (2) 320 each
Wings (2) 250 each
Top jet thrusters (2) 210 each
2F-SS Heavy Gunpod 150
Reinforced Pilots Compartment 300
Main Body 450

Basic Weapons:
Variable-fire Head mounted Pulse lasers
The new variable-fire head pulse laser features a brand new circuitry set-up that allows for two modes of fire. Pulse mode allows for quick rapid fire, with a long range. Beam Mode fires a high powered concentrated stream of energy albeit very short ranged, Beam mode is use for cutting and welding purposes, such as cutting a hole into a Zentran starship thru the hull, which can be done in a single melee round!
Range: Pulse mode 2000 feet (610 meters), Beam mode 75 feet (23 meters).
Damage: 6D6 pulse, 4D6x10 for full melee beam
Rate of Fire: Pulse: equal to combined attacks, Beam is a full melee attack
Payload: Unlimited.

Variable-fire Pulse Laser Cannons
The very same technology that went into the head pulse lasers was developed into new laser cannons in the hips on the intakes. However the beam mode of fire, charges up several pulses and fires them in a concentrated blast that has a much longer range, but it also limits the amount of shots you can fire.
Range: Pulse 6000 feet (1629 meters), Beam 8000 feet (2438 meters)
Damage: Pulse 2D4x10 each, Beam 6D6x10 for each
Rate of fire: Pulse equal to combined attacks, Beam three blasts per melee
Payload: Unlimited
(Note these lasers can only fire forward and only in Jet & gerwalk modes)

2F-SS “Jack-Hammer” Heavy Gunpod (Standard Issue)
This is a new type of rail gun pod based off the 2E-SS model, but improvements in technology have made it more advanced and powerful. The gun uses more energy efficient coil magnets instead of energizing an entire rail it turns the magnets on and off drawing the rounds thru the coils and accelerating them to hypersonic speeds (around mach 8-10). Because of the coils, it features a new vented barrel, so in an atmosphere it draws in air behind the rounds and reduces the shock blast when exiting the muzzle, the report is still quite loud, but tolerable. It also features a selector switch allowing for single fire or burst fire, including a new 3 round burst mode to conserve ammunition. The other improvement is in the ammunition. By using a 300 round flechette pack instead of a single slug, it increases the damage by slamming 300 tiny slugs into the target. The basic fighter has two forearm “Shields” each has 20 MDC and one holds a 2F-SS gunpod with a simple integrated pulse firing system that allows the 2F-SS to fire in jet mode forward. When transformed into GERWALK or Battroid the gun faces backwards. The other “shield” holds two spare clips in it. And the gun holster “shield” is usually mounted on the “off” hand of the pilot. (I.e.…for right handers, the gun is carried on the left arm.)
Range: 10,000 feet (3048 meters)
Damage: 3D6x10 for one round
Rate of fire: Modern, Aimed, Burst, or Wild. Special: 3 round burst is 1.5 damage (i.e. 12 becomes 18, or 18 becomes 24 etc…). 3 round doesn’t do a lot of damage it’s mostly designed to conserve ammo.
Payload: 2000 rounds. That’s 665 three round bursts, 50 short bursts, 25 long bursts, 12 Melee bursts.

Wing Hard Points
The wings have been strengthened and 3 “Hard Points” have been added. The outer most point can support up to 2000lbs (900 kg). The middle point can support up to 6000lbs (2700 kg). The inner most point will support up to 12,000lbs (5400 kg). For a combined total of 20,000lbs (9000 kg) of ordnance or
10 tons per wing.
Mini Missile 2lbs each
Short Ranged Missile 100lbs each
Medium Ranged Missile 300lbs each
Long Ranged Missile 500lbs each
RMS-1 or other Cruise Missile 2000lbs each

Other Armor Kits.
All Super Armor Packs (AKA S.A.P.) are usable by this Valkyrie. And there is the TGBPS-5S Mk A, B, & C for which this fighter was designed.

Robot PS equal to an 80. Lifts and carries: 12 tons! Pulling: 24 tons! (Note: Because of the heavy duty nature of the “hydraulics” the VFT can lift and pull 3x as much as a normal robot of the same strength)


Hand to hand combat.
● Restrained Punch: 3d4
● Full Strength Punch: 1d4x10
● “Booster” Punch: 1d6x10 (counts as 2 attacks)
● Tear or Pry with Hands: 4d6
● Kick: 3d6
● Leap Kick: 1d4x10
● Body flip/throw: 1d6
● Body block/tackle: 2d4
● Stomp: 2d6 (only effective on objects 10 feet tall or less)
Standard Equipment for the VTF-2SSU
● Autopilot: The 2SSU are equipped with a computerized autopilot, allowing the pilot to relax or even sleep during long flights. The autopilot can be programmed with a single destination, or a complex flight plan involving multiple speeds, directions, and destinations. The on board computer will alert the pilot when the fighter is near it’s destination, and can also be set to automatically signal the pilot when objects are near the mecha. The autopilot was designed for long intra-system flights in mind.
● Upgraded Combat computer: The 2SSU are equipped with a newer, upgraded combat computer that can store and analyze data during combat with hostile forces, and controlling up to 6 automated attack bits. Data collected by the combat computer can be viewed on the cockpit screens, or on the VTF tactical flight suit helmet. The tactical helmet is an amazing break thru in technology, creating a virtual environment where ever the pilot looks displaying data on enemy positions, missiles tracking and position of all friendly units. Even more amazing if a squadron of 2SSU’s are in combat each pilot can flick over to their squad mate’s sensors and see what they are seeing and look in at other points in combat to see if their squad mate has a better view of their target. This is referred to a Cross-Communications System or CCS for short. The computer can also store over 20,000 known targets of enemy mecha, ships, and equipment. The pilot can also add up to 10,000 more images of hostile forces or friendly forces for any given mission. The computer can also track over 400 targets at any given point.
● Docking connector: This feature allows the 2SSU to connect to any air lock and transfer any one not in a space suit so they can be transferred on a ship or another valkyrie.
● Escape pod: The reinforced cockpit can be jettisoned as a life boat in case of catastrophic failure (i.e.…0 MDC left on the main body) it provides 48 hours of life support and an emergency beacon for rescue, it also has a parachute for atmospheric ejection.
● External audio pickup: Small “shotgun” directional microphones are built into the head unit in the “ear” turrets next to the head lasers they have a range of 600 feet (183 meters) and can detect and listen to a whisper at 600 feet (183 meters).
● Heat and Radiation shields: Special shielding prevents the penetration of life threatening heat and radiation. A radiation detection and alarm system are linked to the shields and will sound an alarm if the shield are breached and will tell the pilot where the breech is and how high the levels of radiation are.
● Homing Signal: The 2SSU escape pod is equipped with a homing signal system that allows rescue team to locate and hopefully rescue the pilot and anyone else that might be there with the pilot. The signal has a range of 600 miles (960 km). Most UN Spacy ships and variable fighters can locate and track the signal, and the onboard computers will notify the pilot if such a signal is detected.
● Laser Targeting system: Range is 200 miles (320 km). Used for increased accuracy in striking enemy targets and is partly responsible for the mecha’s high strike bonus.
● Loud speakers: Can amplify the pilots voice up to 100 decibels
● Nuclear Reactor: Because of the new improvements the 2SSU’s reactor doesn’t have the normal 40 year span, it needs it’s fuel rods replaced after 30 years
● Optics: Wide spectrum Sensors: Range 2000 feet (610 meters). This is a relatively old system resurrected for the 2SSU is still considered quite advanced and it’s also very complex which is why most valkyries don’t use it any longer, however for the Tactical Fighter it was crucial to use it once again. The active/passive system is able to view and project light from any portion of the visible and invisible light spectrum from extreme IR to extreme UV and everything in between. Among other things this allows the pilot to use the IR to see in total darkness or thru smoke, use the UV to see thru water, and even set it for full color thermal vision to see thermal patterns of concealed enemies. The sensors can be used either active or passive scanning modes. In active mode the 2SSU will send out a beam of light (visible or invisible) and views the reflection off the intended target. In passive mode the sensors simply receive data without risk of being detected. Active mode provides more detailed pictures, but passive mode reduces risks of being spotted by IR or UV sensors. The system provides the pilot with a +10% bonus while tracking or detecting an ambush. Results can be placed on the mechs screens, the helmet HUD, or sent to other 2SSU’s via the CCS.
● RADAR: 400 mile range (640 km)
● Radio/Video communications: Long range, directional communications system with satellite relay capabilities. Range: 800 miles can be boosted indefinitely by satellite, this system includes the Cross-Communications System or CCS to send any and all data to the other 2SSU’s in a squad. The CCS is being tested on other Valkyries so they can maximize their information sharing and communications.
● Self destruct: In order to prevent these amazing fighters from falling into enemy hands they have been equipped with a self destruct system which is activated by the pilot. When activated the pilot can set the time for up to 60 minutes. The explosive damage is contained to a 30-foot (9-meter) radius in which everything will take 1d6x10 MDC. All internal systems are reduced to total slag and will be useless to anyone. The escape pod will automatically eject unless the pilot chooses to die with his bird.
● Standard Survival kit: All UN Spacy Variable Tactical Fighters have a standard Survival Kit. The kit includes a multi-pliers, a folding knife, a medium self powered flashlight, 4 hand flares, 2 rocket flares, a digital log compass, infrared distancing binoculars, a small mirror, and a survival handbook. It also has 100 feet (30 meters) of nylon 50lb (22.5kg) test fishing line 200 feet (60 meters) of coiled tri-filament rope, dehydrated food (can be stretched into a 5 day supply for 1 person), and a basic first aid kit. (bandages, needles, sutures, aspirin, disinfectant, first-aid handbook…et cettera)
● Storage Space: The VTF-2SSU also has a storage space behind the pilot it’s 6 feet x 3 feet x 3 feet (1.8 meters x .9 meters x .9 meters). Big enough to hold one or two people in it or all the extra weapons and equipment the pilot may need for his missions it also features a locking mini fridge in the back of it. The refrigerator is 3 feet x 3 feet x 1-foot (.9 meters x .9 meters x .3 meters) and can hold a small amount of food and water (three days worth) and specimens. The storage space also features an E-clip recharging port.
● Tactical Flight Suit: The suit is an armored special unit designed for use with the VTF-2SSU. It features a 12-hour internal air supply. Heating and cooling. What makes this suit special are the features on and in it. It’s linked with the CCS; it has a virtual keyboard linked to a very powerful mini computer. The Milspec computer is as powerful as a modern civilian desktop with a 2-terabyte hard drive. The pilot can use the virtual keyboard like any real keyboard but only he can see it thru the Virtual Reality system of the TFS HUD (Heads Up Display). The plexi-armor memory material faceplate of the suit can provide multiple overlays in a translucent manner so not to totally obscure the vision of the pilot. It also provides the pilot with multiple optics. Being made of what is called Memory material it “remembers” two shapes. First shape is the closed mode, or in other words it’s full shape. Second shape is open mode, or its compressed state. The TFS also features veniers, small thrusters for movement in space or other zero gravity environments. And a complete tactical combat rig, standard issue is 1 Energy pistol + 6 e-clips (3D4 MD). 10 hand grenades (usually fragmentation or plasma). 1 compact folding SDC sub machine gun (9 mm 2D6 SDC) 4 standard SDC ammo magazines (30 rounds each) 2 MDC ammo clips (20 rounds 2D4 MD), a survival/combat knife (2d6 SDC), and about 2 dozen small pouches for miscellaneous equipment.
● Tactical Flight Suit MDC
◊ Head 60 MDC
◊ Arms (each) 55 MDC
◊ Legs (each) 80 MDC
◊ Main Body 120 MDC
● Tactical Flight Suit Standard Features:
► Complete environmental body armor. Suitable for use in all hostile
environments including space.
► Computer controlled life support system that monitors and displays the bio-data of the wearer as well as the capacity and failure of the life support system and damage to the armor. The wearer will know approximately how much MDC is left and whether or not it has been breached.
► Computer controlled, independent oxygen supply and purge system that automatically engages in a low oxygen or contaminated air environments. It has a twelve-hour supply.
► Internal cooling and temperature control.
► Artificial air circulation systems, gas filtration, and humidifier.
► Insulated high-temperature resistant shielding. 500 degrees centigrade. Normal fires do no damage, nuclear and plasma fires do full damage.
► Radiation Shielded
► Polarized Light sensitive visor with wide spectrum optics. The visor
responds to with a tint that activates and varies its protection to changing
lighting conditions. It also incorporates wide spectrum micro cameras built into the helmet. The cameras are concealed and work just like the wide spectrum optics on the Valkyrie, they have a range of 2000 feet (610 meters). The helmet includes a directional short ranged, scrambled, frequency hopping, burst transmission radio. The radio stores up to a 2-minute message then compresses it and sends it out the frequency changes after each transmission so others can’t transmit back on the same frequency. Each suit in a squad go thru a synchronizing before each mission so all the radios frequency hop at the same time. This system prevents the Valkyrie commandos from being detected. Well, at least in theory. Range is 10 miles (16 km)
► Built in loud speaker. 90 decibels.
► The helmet can be removed, or the memory material visor can be opened.
► The suit also includes a built-in language translator. It has English to Zentran automatically and can have up to seven other languages programmed into it.
► Space Movement Veniers: this allows the pilot to maneuver in Zero gravity. The system has 2 hours of thrust fuel; it powered by a set of CO2 canisters in the back of the suit. The canisters can be removed or replaced in 5 minutes by the suit’s wearer.
● Tactical Life Support: The cockpit of the 2SSU is pressurized, and also provides additional fresh air feeds to the pilot’s Tactical Flight Suit that provides him with pressurized air for breathing. This system also features a self-retracting 100 foot (30 m) reinforced tether/air line for limited space walks. The suit also incorporates a upper and lower body g-suit that forces blood in one part of the pilot’s body to another in order to prevent pooling and causing either a red out or black out in high g maneuvers.
Variable Tactical Fighter-2 SS Upgrade Armor Kit Tactical Grenade Box Protector System – 5S Mk A/B/C
Weight: adds 30 tons to the Valkyrie Total of 64 tons
M.D.C. By Location
Location Quantity M.D.C.
Forearm Shields/Weapons Packs (2) 600 each
Shoulder Weapons pods (2) 250 each
Top jet thrusters/Buster Rifle-booster pack (2) 350 each
Hip Missile Launchers (2) 200 each
Thigh Missile packs (2) 250 each
Leg Weapons Packs/Thrusters (2) 850 each
Rear Mounted Missile Pack 250
Main Body/Weapon Pack 1500

T.G.B.P.S.-5S Speed & Bonuses
Running: 100 mph
Flying: Atmosphere: Mach 1.5 Space: Mach 2.9
Hand to hand combat. The Titan Armor kit adds more damage to punches and kicks because of the weight.
● Restrained Punch: 3d6
● Full Strength Punch: 1d6x10
● “Booster” Punch: 3d6x10 (counts as 2 attacks)
● Tear or Pry with Hands: 4d6
● Kick: 4d6
● Leap Kick: 2d4x10
● “Booster” Kick 4d6x10 (counts as 2 attacks)
● Body flip/throw: 2d6
● Body block/tackle: 3d6
● Stomp: 2d6x10 (only effective on objects 10 feet tall or less)
Note: The VTF cannot transform with the Titan Armor kit on. IT MUST jettison the Armor kit before transforming.

"Bandits at 12 O'clock" "Let's Smoke 'em" " Good Ash, Bad Ash, Doesn't Matter, I'm the one with the Gun."

Member

Response 

Jeebers  
Rank: Sergeant

Subject: robotech 
Posted on: March 15, 2008 - 2:56:06 PM



"I think what jeebers is complaining about is that fact that PB uses afast and dirty combat system and more of the fact that EXP in PB is more combat based"

Nope, the xp system in Palladium is symptomatic of the whole rpg itself. The xp is story based, whilst the game is overwhelmingly combat orientated. This is not a good match, and it's a small example of what's happening in the Palladium system.

(which I know that it looks like that. But seriously you need to think outside the box)

I'm perfectly capable of adapting the game rules if necessary to my purposes. However, when I have to redesign the whole game from scratch for numerous problems (no miniatures, bad skill system, poor social abilities, stagnant classes, etc....

“So... I'm supposed to respond to your 'request' while your are writing it, and hasn't been published for veiw?”

No Brumph, in actuality I was referring to your style of writing. I never once asked you to respond to my homemade RT writeup since I never gave it to you or published it. What I have been saying is that D20 Modern is more suitable than Palladium for a rpg Robotech. Hell, ANY system would be better. I even provided proof how superior D20 Modern is to Palladium.

“Clearly you like lots of rules for social interactions; thats fine.”
”Where we part paths, again, is that you prefer a higher level of interference than I would.”
No, I don’t. I just like them to be available if they are needed for those players that aren’t good at being charismatic, or perceptive, or etc.
“Sure, we were a bit more civil than you seem to expect, with only two exceptions, but we weren't all (or even mostly) exceptionally gifted in the social ability department.”
Most gamers are civil, even shy from what I’ve encountered.

“Forget benchmarked social abilities or aptitudes for your gaming group. Respect would be more useful and make even the lamest attempts at role-playing a bit more enjoyable for everyone involved.”
If I’m running a game, and my player does something clever or sweet talks somebody, either they succeed and they don’t even have to make a roll, or I have them make a roll with a bonus for roleplaying it. However, most players aren’t good at delicate social interaction like this, but they are civil. We are getting off topic and onto social interaction rules.
“where we seem to part paths again is that I am willing to find a different system (or create one) that addresses my concerns, than continue using, unmodified, the system that I have problems with.”
You know, I really tried to do this for half a year straight gaming once a week for 5 hours at a shot. I found myself revamping the whole darn thing after the players got confused, and it wasn’t just the simple mechanical problems that were at fault. What’s the point of revamping if it’s easier just to switch to another game system that does it better?

“Heck, I even agree that the comparison between the different incarnations of D20 and Palladium is hopelessly flawed. ….unchanged from each incarnation to the next, while having annoying inconsistencies and incompatibilities that are drawn out when you really do try and cross-pollinate Palladium worlds & rules sets.”

I sure wish it was different, myself. Initially I really LIKED Palladium, and I was excited to play. BUT, the mechanics are fairly easy to fix in comparison to the vast areas unaddressed in simple writing quality and material. There just wasn’t enough in Palladium (or their later systems like Rifts etc)for socialization, and that’s why I liked the anime in the first place!

“I enjoyed Palladium when Robotech was an active product line; but Rifts burnt me out, and I have found better systems that meet my expectations and desires than the Palladium system does. I don't need to "bash" them or mean to complain; they just aren't my first choice of RPG system.”
I began to feel the same way after encountering Rifts, Heroes Unlimited etc. It’s fine for blowing things up really well, but it just can’t handle anything more complex.
ShadowLogan
“Sounds like a ton of math for something simple as getting shot.”

Sigh, you missed the point, AGAIN. I assumed that you were familiar with D&D 3.5 and so I compared it to D20 Modern, which you weren’t familiar with. It was an analysis of how they were different, and what the cumulative effect was. Combat is really simple in a D20 game, but I thought you knew that.

Actually, all you do in any D20 game is add your attack bonus to a d20 roll, and compare it to your target’s Defense/AC. If you hit, roll your damage dice. Your opponent gets to subtract from this damage if he has something rare like hardness, damage reduction, or some form of energy reduction that applies to the situation. There is a chance to get a critical hit, but even if you rolled a natural 20 you have to roll again to confirm it. If you do, roll the damage dice twice and add it together for the total.

That’s a lot easier than Palladium.

“FNFF Combat rules were simple...they were more or less based on real evidence of
So what are you Options in Cyberpunk 2020? wear body armor and pray you don't get shot.”

That sounds a lot more complicated than D20, but then I’ve never played Cyberpunk, just some of the same genre games like Shadowrun. Still, if combat is a major portion of the game, the combat system is pretty numbers intensive since precision is usually required.

“Remember in the real world people have died for a .22 shot in the foot. It's system shock and CP2020 makes very good use of it.”

That’s odd, D20 Modern does the same thing. Remember those massive damage rules? If your GM wants to, you can go more realistic and change that limit-trigger from your Constitution score in D20 Modern to just 10 (D&D is at a massive damage trigger of 50 damage by way of comparison). That makes it pretty easy to die just from a simple handgun (2d6 damage), since you will likely fail the Fortitude roll and begin bleeding to death at –1hp. You’ll die in about 54 seconds(9 rounds) if you don’t stabilize. Even if you do, you’re still unconscious and at the mercy of your enemy. Assuming somebody tries some first aid on you, all they can restore is 1d4 hp and prevent you from losing too much blood. That 1d4 can only be received once a day at most. Surgery can be attempted, but it takes hours and will fatigue you for about 24 hours or less. You’ll get back 1d6hp per patient experience level.

“ that is why I change and adapt the rules to my groups needs. In the first PFRPG there was a stamenet in there if you Don't like the rule... throw it out or change it.”

My point, ShadowLogan, is that I’d rather have a rule present to cover the situation and ignore it if I don’t think it’s necessary for my group than have to make one up on the fly. Were you paying attention, or did you allow emotions to interfere, or some other reason?

“And personally I find "rules lawyers" to be annoying and bothersome.”

If you’re inferring to me as a rules lawyer, I think you’ve missed the point again. Earlier in this very posting, I’ve written about that, and I’ve never said I wanted to be rolling dice every few seconds. Sure, I’d rather let my players roleplay it out since it’s more fun, so if they do I usually don’t have them roll because they just succeeded. However, I’ve found that there are a lot of instances where a player just doesn’t have the same abilities as the character that they’re playing, so game rules have to step up to cover the situation. Do you want me to cite examples, or do your players illustrate the point already? Most players do.

Palladium notoriously provides a minimum of guidance, and even worse they don’t like to reward roleplaying at all, just story based goals. That’s fine, but the game has to be very story based if you’re using these rules. Palladium actually comes across as a flawed combat simulation where excellent equipment trumps experience every time.

Kinda not good for Robotech, huh?

ShadowLogan, the majority of the reason why I asked earlier for a change in posting style is you. You don’t provide examples or proofs to back up your claims. I’ve also noticed that you don’t seem to be able to counter any of my arguments. So I can only conclude that I’ve won the argument. Too bad I didn’t succeed in getting you to at least buy a copy of D20 Modern and experiment with it. I was hoping to get your honest and openminded review of what I had written on a D20 version of Robotech when I began posting a while ago. Right now I doubt you’re capable of doing that, but I’d happily change my mind if you provide proof to the contrary by acting differently.

As it stands, I keep running intellectual laps on you with every letter because you consistently misinterpret my statements and refuse to investigate the game on your own.

Member

Response 

BRumph  
Rank: Sergeant

Subject: ... 
Posted on: March 16, 2008 - 11:06:25 PM


BTW Brumph it's Maximum Metal not Heavy Metal.
You are correct, of course. I haven't owned that particular book since the 90's; and confused its title with the power armor supplement for the Living Steel/Phoenix Command game systems from Leading Edge Games.

While I've played (limitedly) DP9's core system, I haven't played Heavy Gear particularly. In D20, certain skills are "opposed" while others have set difficulty targets. For example, a character's "Hide" skill attempt is opposed by the other's "Spot" attempt; regardless of how well you roll, its only really successful if the other doesn't see you. The stereotypical locked door, however, will have a set DC to beat with your skill roll. This is not unlike Interlock/RTalsorian where some skills (like combat) are opposed, but others are not.

I too own too much $$ value of RPG books, although my current collection is definitely far more focused than it was in pre-college days.

Jeebers;

I never once asked you to respond to my homemade RT writeup since I never gave it to you or published it.
Nor did I quote or respond to such a statement. What I was responding to was your complaint that I was not taking your advice to "to back up your arguments when you present them with specific facts, not make blanket statements and just expect us to agree" somehow precognitively before you posted it; as your complaint was preceeded by the qualifying statement of "Like I wrote in this very post already...". I cannot respond to critique, positive or otherwise, before it is actually made.


However, I’ve found that there are a lot of instances where a player just doesn’t have the same abilities as the character that they’re playing, so game rules have to step up to cover the situation.
While not addressed, in particular, to myself, I'll offer an opinion with an alternate point of veiw on this dilemma's resolution. I disagree; this is where the GM has to "step up", a rule isn't going to fix it, and is entirely unnecessary unless your players ARE rules lawyers and overall don't respect the GM's rulings or judgement. In the end, I believe it is more likely that the GM is going to make an appropriate judgement on such ephemerial interactions than any mechanical system could. Otherwise, we wouldn't need them, and all would be playing MMORGs

And to another point, yes overall, you (and frankly the rest of us as well) suffer from the dearth of background information. There are plenty of technical details about the mecha and some other technology, but not much on Robotech's ideas regarding social structures or values, even amongst the military, where the majority of the characters are presumed to reside. So, merely switching or creating a new system won't fix this particular 'problem'. So, we have to fill in the gaps ourselves, as GMs and even players, and were just going to have to be happy with what we come up with.

What would be an interesting idea would be that the license went both ways, and HG allowed Palladium (since they have the license) to fill in such gaps, and it had an actual impact on the primary continuity (and make minor cameo appearances in future movies/OAVs). Like the Invid Overlord from RT:Invasion becoming a cannonized mecha.

Anyway, it doesn't seem there is too much more for me to discuss about any of this (in this particular sub-set of topics anyway).

Pilot of VF/B-9-357, Third Squadron, 12th Division, Jupiter Base.

Member

Response 

BRumph  
Rank: Sergeant

Subject: New Sub-Topic about TSC RPG: 
Posted on: March 16, 2008 - 11:24:02 PM

Has anyone heard if they (PG) are going to bring their technical details in line with what HG has established?

I recall reading in one of the press releases that they were going to update the Timeline to agree with HG's new continuity, but are they going to 'fix' the gritty details about mecha and what-not as well? For example, is the Beta's sensor array still going to be a missle launcher?

Right now, this is probably the dominate hang-up I have with pursuing the possibility of reinvesting in Palladium's rendition of the new RT RPG. Sure, when the RPG was the sole source of technical info, it worked; but now that the RT universe is more fleshed out with 'official' details, it gets pretty distracting.

Like mentioned in my preceeding post, if PG can establish a detail that becomes somewhat binding on the total continuity, and it is consistent with what is already 'official', then the new book would be worthwhile if only to get the gritty details on the new stuff seen in the movie that is missing here. The Haydonite mecha, the Super Alphas & Betas, the ships, ect...

But only if its accurate.

Pilot of VF/B-9-357, Third Squadron, 12th Division, Jupiter Base.

Member

Response 

Jeebers  
Rank: Sergeant

Subject: You can lead a horse to water.... 
Posted on: March 19, 2008 - 2:38:52 PM



BRumph
“Nor did I quote or respond to such a statement. What I was responding to was your complaint that I was not taking your advice to …somehow precognitively before you posted it; “

This comment was primarily made to ShadowLogan, and I could have sworn that I’d requested better debate techniques before where he’s concerned. I must have gotten the two of you mixed up somehow, I’m sorry about that.

“However, I’ve found that there are a lot of instances where a player just doesn’t have the same abilities as the character that they’re playing, so game rules have to step up to cover the situation.”

“In the end, I believe it is more likely that the GM is going to make an appropriate judgement on such ephemerial interactions than any mechanical system could.”

Yes, the GM is the primary judge where this is concerned, but my point was that it’d be nice if we were using a game system that actually encouraged this style of roleplaying by its’ nature. That’d make the GM’s job MUCH easier, wouldn’t it?

“There are plenty of technical details about the mecha and some other technology, but not much on Robotech's ideas regarding social structures or values, even amongst the military, where the majority of the characters are presumed to reside.”

Actually, my point was that Palladium is notorious for hack n’ slash, not just for the mechanics but also because of the writing style. They usually focus on the neato gear and powers, not on personality evaluations.

C) I continue running intellectual rings around you because you refuse to examine your beloved Palladium and compare it to a “new” system

ShadowLogan
“If this is running intellectual rings around me your way off. I have compared the SW D20 to Palladium's rules. I prefer the Palladium system. Wasting money on another D20 book to sit on my self just is not going to happen.”

You just proved my point beautifully. Thanks for making yourself sound like a moron. You can do better than that! If you refuse to at least examine D20 Modern(which is definitely NOT D&D or SW as at least one other writer posted on the “rpg” thread) you cannot make a convincing argument.

“Newer does not mean better.”

Absolutely true! However, there is always the possibility that somebody has come up with major improvements. If you close yourself off to new developments in anything, you become old and brittle, IMHO. Physical age has nothing to do with it.

“IF the Robotech RPG went D20 I would not buy it period.”
Sounds like you’ve made up your mind well before we ever began the discussion and sadly, well before you ever tried what it was you’re adamantly against. When I was little, I’d look at unknown food dishes and say, ”I don’t like it!” My mother replied, “How do you know if you’ve never tasted it?” I didn’t have an answer for that. Sounds like you don’t, either.

“Which would exist regardless in any System that alters some value (XP, Skill, HP, whatever). So why would it be different with D20 Modern? It wouldn't.”

Not to the degree Palladium engenders. You have to pencil in the names of all the different skills/proficiencies, and then the percentages with the level up rate. This means when you level, you easily run into illegibility problems when you accidentally erase the skill name that you had to write really tiny with a mechanical pencil. In other rpg’s, the skill names are already printed on the sheet, and you just erase your old numbers and replace it with the new ones. Are you being deliberately dense, because I thought I already pointed this out?

“I'm not limiting myself to just the RT main Book and haven't for this discussion.”

I used it as a convenient example, because I assumed you’d be familiar with the material.

“We've ported appropriate Rifts & Macross2 Skills in our RT games without any trouble.”

However, this doesn’t address the fundamental problems that come up when you try to take a hack n’ slash game and try to have romance and characterization in it. For one small example, no matter how many new skills you throw into Palladium, you are STILL left with the clunky on/off skill responses. No degrees of success, as I’ve pointed out repeatedly before. I’ve got the very same books.

BTW Ninjas and Superspies only compounds the Lots-of-actions-per-round problem. I like the martial arts overall, but the specific implant ideas aren't all that exciting IMHO.

“And Macross2 actually has "SDF-1" deckplans (its for M2, but w/exception of the arms they can work).”

That’s sweet, but those deck plans don’t mention the layout of the city within, nor do they provide any sort of detail about what’s on those decks in the first place. Kinda half-assed work. If you’re going to go to all the trouble of creating deck plans, you should at least finish the job!

“I like more specific skills. Generalized skills seem like a copout to me, not everyone who can use a computer can also write programs.”

Weren’t you the one that said D20 required lots of rolls just to do anything? I proved you wrong just by noting there are 16 Piloting skills in Palladium, and all of 2 in D20 Modern.

If you want to get more specific, fine. Palladium writers seem to go all out with the cool doodads but they never mention how to use the PB or MA stats in combination with their vaunted skills. Is that more specific? Nope!

“Nothing says you can't house rule skill availablity OR OCC changes either.”

Very true! I did all of that after the first few months of gaming. No matter how many new skills or OCC changes I made, it didn’t help. For example, the Veritech OCC uses up every one of it’s skill slots just to provide a somewhat realistic Navy pilot, and so the only difference between each PC Veritech ace is his attributes. Most players want to have their own specific role in the party, and just throwing the old “MOS” patch in Southern Cross onto RDF characters isn’t going to fix the problem.

“There are not zillions of skills either. The entire RT RPG line (1st Run) had about 144specific skills (not counting subskills). That is using Sentinels RPG, ALL the known RT supplements, and the OCC specific ones in the Main and ASC. Rifts has over 300”

Oh? There are all of 66 skills listed in the D20 Modern book. That’s less than half of what’s in a single Palladium variant, according to you. You proved my point, yet again.

“Palladium doesn't have the Feats that D20 uses, which are really nothing more than glorified skills. Which brings the actual D20 Skill count higher than you make it out to be.”

Actually, no. The feats are primarily dealing with specialized combat or weapon group proficiencies, in case you haven’t noticed. Want me to go through Robotech or Ninjas & Superspies or TMNT or…. to find out just how many WP’s there are in any given Palladium game? I own quite a few.


Okay, so if I have a 50% amateur cooking skill because of my higher level, am I better than the guy who has 35% professional cooking skill?


“Amateur quality is not the same as professional quality. What is so hard to understand about that? An example of differences in quality might be flavor: a pro can bring out the flavor more than an amateur.”

So it’s a quality difference? Hmmm. Is there a World-Class Cooking proficiency? How about a Uber-World Class Cooking proficiency? In every D20 game, you know what the quality of a successful result by the total you just rolled above what was needed. Palladium is just on/off, so your argument falls flat.

“Your example numbers don't make much sense either, because the lowest Cooking can be in RT is 50%. A First Level Pro is equal to a 3rd or 4th level Amateur skill percentage wise w/o looking it up in the book and neglecting Skill Bonuses or Penalties, but there is still a quality difference.”

Sigh, I made up random numbers to illustrate my point. If I’m a 5th level Amateur Cook, will my food be better than the First Level Pro Cook you just mentioned? My percentage is higher. Hey, what happens if both characters reach 98%? How do you determine who’s made the better pie? Palladium doesn’t answer this, so we have to create something to cover Palladium’s deficiency yet again.

“What you are describing is metagaming. And really what is to stop a player from getting those books and doing it regardless of the system? Nothing really.”
My point was, why make it easier for players to cheat? At least in other rpg’s if you see the beastie compendium out during the game, you know instantly that they’re metagaming. Oh sure, a GM could just watch which page the players opened the book up to. Since all players require the main book just to play the game, that makes it really easy to read the enemy’s stats. You could at least force the players to buy the MM in order to cheat, but most gamers are notoriously broke so that isn’t likely to happen often.

“Even Palladium games play different depending on the setting. PF characters have lower SDC than Rifts characters at 1st level. Rifts allows Auto Dodge (RT calls it Leap Dodge and is only available in Mecha), but it doesn't exist in PF's main book.
RT characters skill percentage wise are better than PF or Rifts characters where they overlap. I wouldn't be surprised either if some of the other PB game lines had differences to. I know N&S, and After The Bomb have differences in creation though I've never played in them.”

I’ve played them. None of these changes address the fundamental problems within OCC’s, ROLEplaying support, poor xp reward recommendations, terrible writing quality…

“Your discription doesn't make it sound that different than SW D20 2nd Ed to warrant buying it.”

Sigh, I can’t do a writeup of the ENTIRE game just for your eyes. I used it as an example to show you just how different D20 Modern is from D&D 3.5, a game I presumed you were familiar with. Star Wars has its’ own problems, IMHO, but that’s not the topic at hand. Moreover, you’ve already implied that you’ve made up your mind well before we began the discussion that all D20 games are alike. I just proved you wrong. So, why not just borrow the book from a friend or the library if you don’t want to spend any money to investigate?

“I think when Palladium was making those OCCs they where basing it on the Anime and not Real Life Military. Some of those OCCs could also be used as a civlian character who has never been in the military. The REF and ASC OCCs seem to have addressed that issue in any regard. The New RPG line will likely have to.”

Maybe, but they never even went to the effort to produce either a guide for military behavior for example nor even a guide for typical anime behavior so we know how the game should feel overall. My point is Palladium just doesn’t go to the effort to provide roleplaying material as a starting point for us to learn from, but they WILL give us lots of boom and spend endless pages discussing it to the exclusion of all else.


if I get 76% total on my Detect Ambushes skill, what can I do that someone with a 30% couldn’t do?


“You're more likely to catch something the person with the lower skill percentage could. What is so hard about that?”

Sigh. Oh sure, you’re more likely to succeed (I’m brighter than you give me credit for). But, you’ll never know how well you’ve succeeded because it’s an on/off mechanic. If I roll my percentile dice and get a 75% result, how is that a better result than if I’d rolled a 24% on my 76% Detect Ambushes skill? It isn’t, because you either accomplish the task or you don’t in Palladium. No shades of gray at all.

“Nope. Just because you can repair one type of device does not mean you can do the same with another. I've already pointed this out to you before, but it doesn't seem to sink in.”

I’ve pointed out a number of your errors repeatedly, and you’ve never allowed any of my arguments sink in either. Worse, you can’t seem to counter even one of them.

When you generalize skills, this sort of thing can happen. I’m a big fan of the dice mechanics supporting the story, not the other way around. Most rpg’s take the same stance. I could spend forever and a day writing up new, ever more specific Palladium skills, but that wouldn’t contribute to gameplay. Try using the D20 skills in combinations. Do you know enough about cybernetics to create an implant? Roll your Technology knowledge, and if you want you can add in Craft Electrical and Mechanical to make the thing. The GM could just ask for a Craft Electrical roll and call it good, if she/he wants.

Ooh ooh, wouldn’t it be a great idea if the game writers did the major legwork for you so that you can concentrate on the story and your players?!


“Who says it has to be 100% accurate is what I am saying. If you want more realisim do some research.”

Sigh. My point was that we shouldn’t have to go to such lengths to find material to aid in our portrayal of military characters. Have you ever tried to get a copy of a military training manual? They give you a really long hard look, and start asking pointed questions. My friend John went through the process himself, and it wasn’t pleasant. Shouldn’t the game writers have at least given us some guidelines on either game take(anime or military), instead of nothing at all?



Say it with me one more time: YOU CAN’T MULTICLASS IN RESPONSE TO A NEW SITUATION IN PALLADIUM, SO YOUR PC CAN’T GROW TO MEET NEW CHALLENGES NOT ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE ORIGINAL OCC! Bad idea.



“NOT TRUE The Class system in PB is orientated much differently than D20. Trying to equate them as being equal will give a head ache. Multi-classing is not as common in PB because it is not needed and when it is done is supposed to be because of a drastic change in the character's life.”

Sigh, I’m still right despite your protests. Say I have a RDF pilot in his mid 20’s when SC starts, and he’s 3rd level. He can’t pilot any of the SC mecha because he wasn’t trained in it, so he has to multiclass because only the ATACS can pilot the Hovertank without HUGE penalties. Unfortunately, it’s a hell of a lot easier to just make a new character under Palladium’s system. So, I have to ditch the PC I’ve become attached to and have enjoyed playing for the last 6 months. That doesn’t help the Palladium roleplaying problem, and even worse, it’s not how the REAL LIFE UNITED STATES MILITARY (which the anime itself is based upon) actually works. I pointed out the specifics in prior emails, so I’m not going to go into it again. You can consult the “rpg” thread in the Gaming Hall on the very Robotech website you are now on to find out more, assuming you missed my point yet again.

Palladium doesn’t know what it’s writing about. They never bothered to do their homework in any category (besides providing Japanese notes) as I’ve pointed out time and again in this thread. Unlike you, ShadowLogan, I’m quite willing to buy the PB writeup of Shadow Chronicles so I can be proved wrong. Wouldn’t it be a wonderful surprise if all of these difficulties were fixed? Wouldn’t it be fantastic if you bought or borrowed the D20 Modern book and found material to counter my arguments? I’d LOVE to eat my words on these matters!

But, I’m not going to hold my breath, because Palladium has a terrible track record. Neither have you demonstrated the dedication or effort to try something new, so I’m not going to write home about it, as the saying goes.

I’ve been laughing AT you for quite a while now. You are willfully ignorant, and yet you try to have an intellectual discussion on a topic you know little about, as I’ve already proven chapter and verse.

You are pointless, ShadowLogan, and none too bright. Flame me all you like, I quit trying to make the horse drink.
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